Stem cell veto heats up the debate. Again.
I'm sure you've all heard by now that he (Bush) vetoed the stem cell research for embryonic cells again, and urges researching other lines, like adult stem cells.
He says he values human life, and pretty much every one who agrees with him on that, cites abortion as the reason why.
In the last few days, this debate was brought up in a few places I visit on line, and it got ugly, as it always does.
Lines drawn in the sand, people making accusations against one another, the word abortion tossed around as the reasoning for not using stem cells, and religion as the backbone for that side of the argument.
People were not interested in the scientific facts of when life begins, which the baby's heart takes it's first beat at day 18, and makes it's first brain wave pattern at day 40, they are staunch believers that life begins at the exact moment the egg is fertilized.
And I'm not saying they do not have the right to believe that way, they cite religion as the reason they are opposed to abortion and therefore embryonic cell use.
The embryos come from frozen, donated embryos, not from aborted fetuses.
But no one wants to hear that.
Life begins at conception they say, so even if it's a frozen embryo, it is life.
They say that even if the owners of the donated embryos, gave consent for them to be used for science, the embryo didn't.
The embryo can't because it is not a live being capable of making that decision, and will not be able to make that decision until day 40 when it's brain makes it's first wave pattern.
These embryos are frozen before the heart even makes it's first beat at day 18, so therefore, it is not alive and capable of any such decision at all, leaving the decision solely up to the owners who have donated it.
But then we always come back to abortion.
It will always come back around to abortion.
What I am going to say is going to offend and upset the religious right, the defenders of life who cite the bible as the reason they are against abortion.
I already know the arguments that will follow, because I've had this discussion multiple times now.
I know that the religious right are going to come in and say that the old testament was before, when God was a vengeful god, when he punished for every little thing, that he spoke in metaphors.
I hear that argument from the anti-abortion defenders all the time, the old testament doesn't count, he spoke in metaphors.
They say that the bible is not meant to be taken literally, yet this is the book they base their entire belief system on, so which is it?
Is it a true book, or is it a book we should not take seriously because he didn't mean the entire first half of it?
No wait, some stuff from the old testament is true, just not the parts where he's doing bad stuff.
My bad, forgive me.
I'm about to say some things that will anger people, so I'm putting them beneath the cut.
But I'm going to be firm on this and will hope that I can get a straight answer from anyone who wants to try to defend the old testament.
If the bible is true, then the entire bible is true.
There are no parts that are spoken in metaphors, there are no parts where what was said is not what is meant.
Either the entire bible is true, or none of it is true.
It cannot be both ways, it cannot be he spoke in metaphors, it cannot be he didn't mean what he said.
This book is the basis for billions of people believing in a God.
It either is, or isn't.
When people say that God and the bible are the reason for believing that abortion is wrong, then they obviously have not read the bible, or they think as I have stated above, that he spoke in metaphors, or he didn't mean these acts.
God is not pro-life.
Yes I now what comes now, the following bible verses.
One of the commandments, "thou shall not kill", and "I kneweth thou in the womb", and "When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman"s husband shall lay upon; and he shall pay as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth..." Exodus 21:22-24
Those are the basis for the religious anti-abortionists.
But what about these?
Hosea 9:11-16 Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.
That is a God condoned, and performed abortion in mass quantity.
Numbers 5:11-21 This is a brutal ritual that was done on a woman suspected of adultery. There was an induced abortion to rid her of the other man's child.
Numbers 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.
This includes killing every woman who is pregnant, which is also murder of the fetus. Abortion.
Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria. their women with child shall be ripped up
Again, God kills the children, the unborn, and their pregnant mothers.
2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah to be ripped open.
God clearly allows yet again, more pregnant women to be ripped open (abortion) and then murdered.
These are true and real passages from the bible, which is the basis for the religious anti-abortionists stance.
They believe God is pro-life and he is the reason they are against abortion, yet we clearly see that God not only allowed people to perform abortions, he did them himself.
But I know, he was speaking in metaphors, he didn't mean it, the old testament doesn't count.
I know the arguments well.
But my stance is, either the bible is true, or it isn't.
You cannot pick and choose which parts are real, which parts are made up, and which parts you think he didn't really mean what he said.
The bible is the basis for billions of people to believe in God, they believe the bible is the true word of God, but only certain parts of it?
No, you can't have it both ways.
It is, or it isn't.
So if indeed the bible is the true word of God, and he himself performed abortions, then saying that God disapproves of abortion, is 100% false.
And another thing, the bible, the true word of God says this;
Romans 13: 1-7
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which god has established. The authorities that exist have been established by god. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what god has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he shall commend you. For he is god's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is god's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. There fore it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are god's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes, if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
It is the job of Christians to obey the laws. God has commanded them to NOT disobey, and the laws state that abortion is legal.
Now, maybe we can separate abortion from a frozen embryo, and get on with stem cell research .
What do you think?
*Bible verses and some quotes taken from Evil bible.com. The site is a bit harsh for most people, but the bible verses contained are true and actual verses as found in their respective chapters in the King James version.
Comments
Love it! It's either all true, or not. I am no scriptorian, but it amuses me when bible thumpers try to bullshit their way out of a dilemma when debating things like abortion.
Posted by: xulu | June 24, 2007 1:28 PM
Your posts always make me laugh--keep 'em coming! Just checking to see if your "brewing/stewing" post was up yet! You always butter us up--and leave us hangin'! Something is making you laugh--but you won't tell us what--you are EVIL!!;)
Posted by: Robyn | June 25, 2007 12:06 PM