Are atheists allowed to have Christmas?
I received a comment earlier that I have not published, because I know it was done to antagonize me.
I know this because it is clearly negative in tone.
Interesting how you extol "Christmas"
I had to read it twice to believe you had the nerve.
I still have hope for you. The smarter they are, the harder
they...whatever.
So I said to that;
What the fuck are you talking about? How I extol Christmas?
Atheists can't celebrate giving presents? Is that what you're hinting at?
All this because I posted about getting canvases done as Christmas presents for my family.
Yes my reply was 'in your face', but again, I knew this comment from this person was said in a negative tone.
Our email discussions for 2 weeks now, have been combative. What started out as pleasantry, has eroded into intentional jabs at me at every chance.
Religion, more specifically me being atheist, seems to be an issue this person cannot let go of, among other subjects.
My reply was followed by an email from them which basically started off by insulting me, and then asking me these questions, which I've broken down from the email, because some of it was just personal attacks and not worth discussing;
Let me ask you this, Ms. Atheist - what do you care about Christmas at all?
Are you just trying to find an association in time to make yourself feel good about yourself to give presents? You are the most self-contradictory person I've ever met.
Psst....why not extol March 11, or February 15, or May 2nd, or November 13th. What difference does it make to you? Nothing! So any response from you that accuses me - let it.
I never said you couldn't ride on the sleigh horse for giving presents.
For the rest of us, it is "Christmas." That means something.
If you want to celebrate, go ahead. Atheasts can give presents. Of course you're doing it for a purpose you don't believe. And if that offends you, the truth, well - there it is.
Think about why you are mad, as though you are not "deserving" to give presents for Christmas. Well - facts maam. You are not. The best I can say for you is that you condone it and arrange a mental yearly deep breath for the fake it all is - and yes, you can give presents too.
I shall do my best to answer all of this crap below.
I'm actually quite upset by this, have been for hours now.
This person seems to enjoy picking at how I celebrate the holidays, basically calling me a hypocrite.
My family, my sons and I, do not celebrate the Christian Christmas. We enjoy the gift giving of St. Nick. Not Santa Claus, but the real St. Nick who made and delivered toys.
We have a tree, we watch silly holiday movies, and sing about winter wonderlands and snowmen.
I'm not contradicting myself at all. I know what my family does, how we celebrate, and what traditions we do. Unlike you who is quick to make assumptions about someone you barely know.
Maybe instead of attacking and insulting me, you could have asked how we celebrate Christmas.
Wouldn't that have been a better approach?
As for the day I extol, I explained it above. Pagan holiday and St. Nick.
It does matter to us as well. It's our day just as much as it is your day.
As a matter of fact, it was OUR day first.
You don't get to own a freaking holiday even though you'd like to think you do.
I'm thrilled it means something to you, but you still don't own the day.
Atheists can give presents for reasons we believe. Pagan holiday, St. Nick again.
I don't believe in your reason for giving presents, but I'm not going to stop you from commercializing the birth of your savior.
If you want to get super technical, you should not get any presents for Christmas because the gifts were for Jesus, not for anyone else.
But now us pagans and atheists, well, we can buy any old thing we want and hand it to whom we want, because we are not celebrating the birth of any savior.
We like presents. Lots of them. Especially stuff we can play with.
And if you want some truth about your day, well here it is. And if that offends you, I'm not particularly caring at the moment.
Who the fuck are you, to declare that I am not deserving to give presents for Christmas?
Again, do you own the fucking day? Do you even understand the history of the day?
You celebrate it on that day because there is no evidence to actually support the day your savior was born, so that day was picked. More evidence points to Jesus being born in the spring, or even possibly September, the time when the census' were actually held.
I don't take a yearly mental deep breath for all the fake that it is. I know your story is fake, but the Pagan holiday, the feast of the Son of Isis, was celebrated on December 25.
Partying, feasting, and gift giving, were traditions of this event.
We also had the Romans who called their winter holiday Saturnalia, honoring Saturn, the God of Agriculture. This was celebrated many years before the birth of Christ.
In ancient Rome, they had people who went around costumed and singing, and dancing. They were called the Mummers. The tradition of caroling came from this.
The pagans of northern Europe celebrated their own winter solstice, known as Yule. Yule was symbolic of the pagan Sun God, Mithras, being born, and was observed on the shortest day of the year. As the Sun God grew and matured, the days became longer and warmer. It was customary to light a candle to encourage Mithras, and the sun, to reappear next year.
What day is that?
December 25th.
In 350, Pope Julius I, declared that Christ's birth would be celebrated on December 25.
It was done so it would be as painless as possible for pagan Romans who were the majority at the time, to convert to Christianity. They accepted this because it meant that their feasts and traditions would not be taken away from them.
The earliest recorded history of a tree being used in a Christian celebration was in 1521, in Germany.
The tree is the one symbol that unites almost all the northern European winter solstices. Live evergreen trees were often brought into homes during the harsh winters as a reminder to inhabitants that soon their crops would grow again.
The Druids used the tree as a religious symbol, holding their sacred ceremonies, while surrounding and worshiping huge trees.
So please, don't tell me I have to take a yearly deep breath for all the fakery. It is others who took the holiday from the non-Christians, and used it, because they had no evidence of the day their savior was born, and they needed to try and convert people over.
It is you who needs to understand the history of Christmas, and not go around attacking others who are not like you.
As for the rest of your email and your personal attacks, I already told you, don't contact me ever again.
Your comments if you leave them, will never be published. Your emails will be deleted.
And ya know what else?
I'll say fuck whenever the fuck I want to.
Comments
Kat, first let me say that I am a practicing christian. To me one of the core values of my religion is acceptance of others beliefs whatever they may be, whether or not we understand them or agree with them. I can certainly appreciate the fact that the narrow minded person who attacked your free agency is truly ignorant. We just don't need people like that in our lives. Please understand that all christians are not such assholes!!! You absolutley do have the right to celebrate loving and giving any way you choose. Your happiness should be dictated by you and no one else. Merry Christmas!!!
Posted by: Johnny G | August 25, 2007 5:11 AM
Bravo Kat, I am another one who doesn't celebrate the traditional Christian Holiday, but I do exchange gifts with family and friends, I don't put up a tree, basically because I am never home much to even enjoy one.
Posted by: Breezie | August 25, 2007 7:57 AM
FWIW, I am a Christian. I was an atheist for awhile, an agnostic for awhile before that. Christmas is Christmas. Yes, for some its about the birth of Jesus, for others its about bringing to joy to loved ones, for many its about both.
If they are truly Christian then they can pray for you and let it go. :) In the meantime... screw 'em. :)
Posted by: Shannon | August 25, 2007 11:21 AM
Isn't it amazing how little people respect different beliefs these days? Sorry that there are some "Christians" that do not heed the very word they read!
Posted by: Mindy | August 25, 2007 10:33 PM
I don't celebrate a christian christmas either, but we celebrate in our own way and I even own a christmas tree! We celebrate a lot of things, nothing very specific because I don't want to cloud the kids with things that they *HAVE* to be, but would rather them choose what they want to be and how to believe and make their own choices of what makes them happy spiritually .
Posted by: Loretta | August 26, 2007 12:06 AM
It always amazes me how unchristian Christians can sometime be
You know how I feel about this. To each their own. I don't push my beliefs on you and you don't push your nonbeliefs on me and we all are happy campers. :)
Posted by: Lisa | August 26, 2007 6:38 AM
It's silly for Christians - and I am one - not to understand the history behind their own religion. Like all of our Christian Holidays, Christmas was placed on a date of a pagan holiday. Thinking Christ was actually born on Dec 25th is ignorant.
Now in our modern culture, Christmas has become a holiday in it's own right outside the Christian faith. It is not just atheists that celebrate it as a peace on earth, good will toward fellow man holiday, and as special family, gift giving day. I have friends who are Muslim, Buddhist, and other faiths who celebrate Christmas for those kind of reasons.
If anything, as a Christian, I am glad that the message out there for more than the Christian community.
Posted by: Tina K | August 27, 2007 2:57 AM